This is a messy, grubby financial thing again, but it's breaking this evening that there's to be a possible breakaway from our "big 6" plus 3 from Spain and 3 from Italy.
I believe they plan to run a competition midweek instead of the Champion's league and open it up to 15 permanent members and to 5 invited teams each season.
Obviously the timing is vile, the plan is anti-competitive and deeply unpopular with the authorities.
Said authorities appear to be ready to hit the nuclear button if the clubs don't back down, but there may be a statement from the signed up clubs this evening.
The problem here is that the idea keeps resurfacing and the foreign owners who want a franchise competition aren't going away.
Where will this end?
Absolutely totally no surprise.
FIFA and the FA are sh.t scared of these “super” clubs and the revenue they generate.
Anyone else getting hacked off with top flight football?
Real Madrid and Barcelona can be a billion pound in debt. PSG with a frankly poor worldwide fan database can ”afford” mega salaries for the top paid players in the world because there is no longer an effective FFP rule ( was there ever at this level? ) City got away with a ban because they can afford the best legal team. The list goes on.
For as much as I wanted Premiership football I occasionally find myself wistfully looking back at simpler times.
My love for the club will never diminish but my love for top level football is definitely on the slide. If it was ever there in the first place.
You're right Soopa it is sickening.
I feel the other 14 PL Clubs should have stood together and come out with an ultimatum to the English FA that if the 6 English signatory clubs were not punished they should have refused to play matches and finish the season 20/21. But sadly that day has passed and as you say the "have not's" must now compete on an equal footing against the super rich again.
What could the FA have done to the 14 clubs if the refused to play?
The 14 could have defended this stance simply by expressing their view that the 14 Clubs were abiding by the laws / rule book and in their eyes others weren't.
They could also say they were taking the stance to refuse finishing the season to protect the 72 EFL clubs that this also affects.
They could have gotten the media behind their cause and hence the ordinary fan would feel solidarity and the notion of we will all stand together to protect the English league clubs.
the 14 should have stuck together and called the FA's bluff
No sanction = No games
By a season not finishing how could any of the 6 made CL or other European football this season Arsenal missed out as we all know but could you honestly see Arsenal making way for Spurs to play in Europe (no matter what competition) instead of them?? so if the english PL season didnt finish NONE of the 6 ESL clubs could have qualified and all would lose out financially, but no point in dwelling on that now the time to act was last season and all this bluster and "ooooo im really mad" outburst on sky by gary neville and jamie carragher and others on BBC were futile. Strangely tho i dont think those two in particular will come out too boisterous and say too much about todays decision by UEFA.
Longtime since this made the headlines, but i see that UEFA have dropped all charges against the 3 clubs that never removed themselves from the ESL and wont be seeking any fines already dished out to the other signatories.
ManU, liverpool, City, Chelsea, italian clubs PSG all have now officially got away with deliberately breaking UEFA rules, funny that all the rich owners, that can well afford to pay, are all good boys again.
What kind of message does this send to all other clubs? Ye must play by the rules and accept any punishment handed down but if you are associated with a super rich club you can do what you like????
Wonder have the UEFA top brass received any post lately🙄
stinks to the high heaven, and another example showing what a corrupt organisation UEFA really are.
One thing. As teams has withdraw from super league please Leeds supporters do not attack Man u players or the team bus on the way to Elland road.this has nothing to do with the players.led the Leeds team show them on the field
Agree with BB and ICE, football and clubs have got themselves is a terrible mess. The greed from players & agents alike has left massive clubs on the brink. Take Barça as an example, they've thrown bucket loads of money at their players, one could probably keep all clubs in League I & II + a fair number of Championship clubs going just with what Messi gets paid.
Still Messi wanted out of his contract!
No wonder they're in some serious shxte.
In reality we're one of the very few big clubs that got really punished for Ridsdale and other owners fxck-ups.
Nowadays clubs stack up debt and get away with it.
We got thrown the book at us.
In Belgium, Anderlecht have debts of more than 100 Million Euro, this even after their loaded owner has decided they don't need to repay his loan to him of well over 35 Million Euro.
Some things are bound to change over here, with the governement under pressure to stop funding football clubs & players. In Belgium players like Mignolet pay less in social security contributions & taxes than the average postman. Our Red Devils get paid when selected for the national team (only pocked money compared to what they get paid at their clubs), but most of them have set up companies abroad for their portrait rights (Luxemburg, Malta) or become a resident of Monaco and end up paying zero taxes.
Some heroes!
Soon enough there will again be big news out about football and it's agents.
You wouldn't believe some of the constructions clubs, players & agents have set up.
The super league clubs should get punished in some way.
You can be sure they'll try and find a way to get their hands on the money JP Morgan has dangled in front of them. This is not over.
One last thing UEFA, FIFA and organisations like the IOC are not there for the good of football and sport in general. They're first priority is and has always been MONEY (filling their own pockets).
They say they need super league to buy Haaland . Price of players and wages must drop.we have bin talking about it for many years
if it was just the local team playing down the park, football lovers would still go. As long as kids are playing football at school and people get together at matches, the game will never die. Football should be stripped back not given more glitz and glamour. Fcking yanks ruin everything with overblown hype. The president from Real Madrid is full of sh-t.
I think we can see the future - we only have to look to our own past.
The bubble will burst for some of these indebted clubs and then the well trodden mechanisms for points deductions and relegation will have to apply.
When one drops the others will have a chance to regroup financially
Don't disagree, but there's never been a historical example of when players wages have gone down. I didn't particularly like the ESL proposal but it doesn't disguise the fact that If football continues to follow the existing model, it will be fecked in as little as five years. The owners know it. At least we have an owner who is trying to balance the books, but this isn't going away.
Sorry, the reason clubs lose money is due to the wages they pay players and agents fees. They say clubs are businesses so why don't they run them as such? No business pays 150% of its annual turnover to a handful of employees.
Is Pogba really worth £350k a week, or De Gea £300k per week? Or could they be replaced by similar players for less? Well the answer is, YES OF COURSE!
Time for the "Big 6" to look closer at how they are run and stop wasting money. ManPoo pay out £600k per week in goalkeeper wages (De Gea, Henderson, Grant and Romero). £30 million a year for one position? I may not be a CEO but even I can see how £20 million per annum can be saved!
Prem clubs losing money is down to themselves. All will have turnovers in excess of £125 million. Cut your cloth accordingly.
BTW my son and I want to buy tickets for games at ER and away but we cannot! Perez is ABSOLUTELY wrong! In England there is huge demand from fans for games. When LUFC were in L1 or wallowing in mid table mediocrity in the Championship tickets for home games were available as the entertainment was so poor. Now, when fans can return to stadiums in full, ER will be sold out each week. So what the F*ck does a guy that runs Real Madrid with debts of over £500million really know apart from spending more money than he has? In the hope local government will bail him out again!
Big 6 my arse! If any other club spent the insane sums these clubs do, well there would be a Big 92 in England!
The thing is Perez isn't completely wrong about football facing a crisis. There are fewer young people watching matches. There's less income and clubs are dependent on broadcasters. The ESL may not be the solution but when there's a scenario that 19 of the 20 premiership clubs lose money, you just know a Tsunami of pain is on its way.
I’ll be surprised Bull if they get anything. This ESL will come back again at some point so the Premiership will have to put something in place to deter them. The lure of extra dosh is too tempting especially when Real and Barcelona have such massive debts. I believe they are both approaching a billion euros. If the authorities slap a big sanction on them now, they can justify in their own greedy minds that the ESL is just a matter of time.
Bull, I can't work out if you are 'for' or 'against' the European Super League....? 🤔😉
Well one thing is certain andyl
If Club owners know that there is no sanction in trying to break away then sure as Night follows Day they will try again maybe in a couple years to have another shot but they WILL TRY AGAIN.
The FA/EFL MUST see this and come up with some sanction / punishment for these 6 otherwise the death nail of the PL will have started last Sunday. As everyone is saying this European League is being talked about for 50years but thats all it was, was talk, but what Sunday was an actual attempt to start the league, a failed attempt, but it was attempted. What are UEFA/FA/EFL waiting for? the ESL to actually start before any punishment is handed out??? ahhhhhh hello they have gone now so do you think they would accept any sanction at that stage.
This cant be allowed to be swept under the carpet with a "come back lads all is forgiven" attitude, otherwise the owners 1million % will have another go.
I can’t see there being any punishment, no matter how much we want it. The Premiership wants it’s big earners back and I can’t see them pushing for sanctions.
Did they break any rules? They haven’t gone through with it so I don’t see how they have. Maybe not consulting with the rest of the Premiership is how they will ‘do’ them, but to what extent?
If there was a punishment for being self serving, greedy and feckless, then they would be busted down to the Conference.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
Very apt for this situation.
I suspect you are right 1972, when people set rules up in any organization they tend to side-step or write down any sanctions / punishments that are to apply if a rule is broken, and when you think of it the rules are written down cause they will need them but assume everyone will follow them so the "punishments" are put to the back burner.
"Sure anyone joining know our rules and sure they wont break them"
As you say when any conflict comes up for adjudication the Judge will only look at what is written down and will also look to see if that document has actually been signed by the all parties. On this score i think it will come out that the FA/EFL rule book will be akin to a sieve and very little "sanctions" can be enforced for such breaches, THEN will we see the fans protest again?? i doubt it. it will be washed away like a passing shower of rain.
If the break away Clubs were oxford / crewe / oldham etc i can guarantee ya they FA/EFL would haul them over the coals because they have greater financial clot than the small Clubs but these big boys have huge "lawyer funds" to take the FA/EFL all the way and the FA/EFL know this so best crawl back into the box and hope all this blows away......
Leaving the 14 PL Clubs back to where they always are in the halpenny place occasionally popping their heads up looking for a few crumbs, a loan that will be paid back by the fans of that Club in increased ticket prices, for a stadium refurbishment or additional capacity so they can try to keep a pace with the 6 guggernoughts that are steaming away into the sunset.
I wonder will Gary Neville rant about this,
i wonder will Gary Neville back up his original outburst on Sunday that these teams should be relegated?
Ya you're right he wont cause that means his Man Utd will suffer, but what about the 14 that will definitely suffer if these 6 are allowed back without consequences??
Hypocrisy at its best
Like what happened yesterday 6 Clubs were in one minute and next all out (they have acted as a unit effectively)
Im reading now this morning the remaining 14 English Clubs are split over what should happen to the 6
FFS act as a unit, 14 is stronger than a 9-5 or 6-8 split grow a pair and stand up to these "big clubs" that on Sunday were willing to jeopardize the financial future of every one of the 14 PL and 72 Football League Clubs on Sunday.
If according to Rule L9 states any member club needs prior written approval by the Premier League Board to enter a new competition, now by admitting that these 6 Clubs intention was to join a breakaway league surly that's a clear breach??
Also if the 6 hadn't any agreement in place to be part of the ESL why did they all feel that they had to make statements last night saying they they have begun proceedings to withdraw????
Its a clear breach of rules and should be punished.
Personally because this act took place this season the punishment should apply to this seasons premier league, unless they all get in the region of -30 points none will really suffer, and will effectively get away scot free with this.
I hear pundits come out ohh dont punish the Clubs because the Fans will suffer, Punish the owners!!!
What a load of cr@p WE WERE PUNISHED AND TOOK 16 FCKING YEARS TO RECOVER (i would still argue we havent fully recovered but thats for another day) Why were us LUFC fans not spared the punishment of -15 points??
Why shouldn't Liverpool FC / MUFC and the others suffer?? They were going to benefit massively if this ESL got off the ground and now they are saying sorry can we just go back to the way it was!!
The punishment should be points deduction, should be large fines 100's of millions of pounds (give it straight to the lower league clubs, so none of the 14 can be accused of trying to line their own pockets) and there is an argument to apply a transfer embargo on all 6 Clubs for 3-4 Transfer windows.
These are punishments that will hurt
1) None of the 6 will win this season PL Title
2) Some of the 6 will be relegated (hopefully 4) and in that way one of them will be doomed to stay in the Championship for at least 2 years.
3) Fines always hurt but only if they are substantial
4) Punishments like this will send out a message if any other Club/Owners try this in the future (which they will) there are repercussions to their decisions.
This is far from over and in a way the Owners knew too well now was the best time to breakaway as "Fans" wouldn't be inside any Stadium. We need the 14 to stick together and we need the 14 to agree on severe punishments otherwise it WILL HAPPEN AGAIN
So now we have to try and second guess what the PL will do in order to reassert their position in all this. The options I see are as follows:
Deduction of Points
This clearly makes a statement, however it affects the players, managerial staff and more importantly the fans who are all completely innocent in this.
Club Fine
Unless this runs into millions, it's a drop in the ocean and will have little effect on the club finances.
I suspect all that will happen will be a slap on the wrist and a note saying they are very naughty boys.
Good luck with any of these managers looking for transfer funds in the future!!!
Shows how far removed they were from reality if they thought they could just steamroller it through. Only Arsenal as a club have apologised so far.
Footie is for the fans not the shareholders! 150 years and communities know what it means, NEVER FORGET "the big 6" most not in a position to qualify not the Champions League. Big Six My Arse!
Tell you what, now that the Gunpowder Six have rolled over, who else thinks we should take advantage of the vacant elite and join the ESL?
This was a classic "failure to prepare" by the Gunpowder Plot clubs who couldn't even get their generals on side. However they have sowed the seed for future attempts. This one is dead, RIP, but it'll rea its head again.
Not to worry, Franchise football will see ManPoo become the New York Reds, Real Madrid will become Real Shanghai, Arsenal will become Dubai Gunners.
You lost your soul. -15 next year please
Folding like a pack of cards as the cowards run one by one...
Chelscum, Shitty and now Barca and Atletico drop out
It's an abortion
Danish - I agree with you! Going to ER and being part of the atmosphere is incredible. Your heart literally pumps as the crowd gets going. Gone to loads of games at the Emirates and it is sterile. The noise is not there, the venom is not there. I wish I lived in Yorkshire!
F.ook me, how pants is normal football without crowds on the tele. ESL games will be sterile given the lack of risk involved and the overwhelming negative feeling towards it.
For me I don’t even bother with the Champions League, in part due to not wanting another subscription to pay, but I have always found domestic games more interesting. Yes, the European nights at ER were amazing, but I didn’t watch the other games.
Just a thought: I’ve been to Anfield as part of a ‘tourist package’, and in spite of an alright match (4-2 win over Burnley) the atmosphere was lame, mainly due to all the tourists who wanted to be part of the famous YNWA stuff and all. That is: lame compared to the Elland Road experience. This is maybe one of the things the Super League money men don’t understand - that by commercializing football even more, the soul and passion is gradually taken out of the game. Football without true fans (and I admit that I, even at Elland Road, will always be a ‘tourist’), is not interesting or relevant. MOT
I wouldn't consider any deduction of points my sanction would be expulsion, simple and as straight forward as that. If any Club choose to play in any other League then that's it they have left. So no coming back to play in a domestic league on a weekend to Jet off to Spain midweek.
Whatever is won this season is won by whoever those trophies were played and won accordingly, however if the 6 in England pull out then for European Club competitions next season just adjust the table by removing the six. If next year that leaves a 14 team premier league so be it, adjust the teams promoted / relegated over the next 2-3 year period or in light of quantity of games / demands on english players would this be the perfect time to reduce the PL to 18 teams and in a strange way help the national team with player fatigue.
Allowing the 6 clubs play in an ESL and also in the PL thats like hedging your bets (having the cake and eating it) oh and if the ESL dosent work out come back to the PL all is forgiven boll*x to that.
I wouldn't impose any sanction on any player in this years Euros because no game has actually kicked off in the ESL so to punish someone before an event wouldn't be right in my mind they could see sense in July!!!!
But make no mistake about it if any player competing in any unrecognized league then they shouldn't be allowed to play in an FIFA/UEFA competition, however this can be easily solved the Domestic FA can instruct their international team managers not to select the guys in the first place.
Leftfield observation - and may stand to be corrected:
I haven't heard a pin drop from Wet Spam or the Foxes yet.
Everton, Leeds and Villa were straight out there
EDIT - now spoken :-)
If the Super League doesn't go ahead, I still think a ban from European competition should be enforced. One of the 12 will be the next high profile club to go bust.
Personally I would like them to remain in the Prem and be forced to start next season with -15 points each at the very least.... It would be absolutely hilarious to see those 6 at the foot of the table for the majority of next season.... 👍👍
if city pull out of the ESL so will the other 5. they will stick together and so too should the remaining 14 along with other 72 league Clubs. The FA&EFL should explore the view that this isnt just a PL issue its an all ENGLISH LEAGUE FOOTBALL issue and all Clubs should have the right to vote and not just confined to the Premier league as relegated teams from the PL automatically fall into the EFL so those Clubs should have a say in what happens if 6 teams any league pull out.
Wonder will Rangers & Celtic consider being 2 of the 3 to make 15 founding Clubs? For years they have been looking to join a "bigger" pond now would be their chance surly.
I thought it was 75% which it still falls short of. Imagine if someone like City changed their mind at a vote and kicked the other 5
Is it correct the rest of the premiership can’t kick the 6 because with 14 left the rules say it’s not 85%
You know, if they really want to go, will any of us miss them?
The biggest issue i have with the ESL is that these 'elite' 6 clubs want to play in this closed competition, earn upwards of 300m per season then bring that cash back into the domestic leagues.
I have heard that the plans for this "Super League" including playing games in the US, Saudi and China. Wherever the most money is. ManPoo? Citeh? Neither will be the pride of Manchester. Liverpool will never be associated with the Mersey. 100+ years of history, 100+ years of the working man watching a game on a Saturday at 3pm that means everything to them totally gone. Arsenal, Spuds and Chelsea, like the others, sold their souls to the prawn sandwich brigade years ago.
How many real fans can get over to New York, Los Angeles, Dubai, Beijing, Shanghai to watch a game?
No worries, Pay per view is there!
I took my son to watch Leeds v Wimbledon for the first time at Selhurst (One of THE Yeboah Goals and Carlton scored a cracker too), I took my little girl to ER to watch LUFC for the first time to play Chelsea (Hasselbank scored the winner for them) both converted to Leeds fans because of Leeds fans and the atmosphere created.
I will take my grandson to ER to watch Leeds for the first time, when this lockdown is over and if I can get tickets. It is a tradition many families through the decades have followed. (I need to convert him from being a red). These are precious memories and special moments in my life and theirs which will be deprived to others.
How many parents of the normal working person are going to be able to do that in this "Super League"? No more pint before/after a game, just a plane trip that costs £1,000 and a hotel that costs £250 a night. Yup. the normal working person can afford that.
That special bond will be gone. When it is lost these clubs will be gone too. No worries, the current owners will have made their bucks long before.
I may have gone to 250+ games at ER, but I cannot get there now often, even though it is only 231 miles away from my home. What chance has any fan got to go to a game several thousand miles away?
If this does go all the way and takes off, no LU supporter should be surprised if we join!
Radrizanni has made the correct noises, for now. But there is a reason that he sold 37% of the club to the 49's. I've said before that for every dollar US investors put into our sport, but they will want two dollars out.
It's the American way!
you cant stop players from earning a living has already been the case of a court ruling when athletics tried to stop a wrestling league and a swimming league being set up
It won't work,quite simply because the 12 so called 'founding member's will be untouchable... and will be able to chop and change things as they see fit with no governing body telling them what they can and cannot do... Chaos will rule without proper rules and regulations,And they will be literally saying fook u to the average football fan and just catering to the rich and famous who can afford to jet set across Europe week in week out....But what they are forgetting is that is the average football fans that make it possible for them to live their extravagant lives not the rich ones.... 😐
Bit like the Packer thing in cricket but at least the players got jack in those days.
Absolutely no defence,
Glad we are not one of them.
Manure's shares have rose by 8.5% on the New York Exchange which opened in the past half hour.
Looks like the moneymen are trying to whip up some business.
I see Kerion Dyer dosen't think its fair to ban players from international competition.
Personally its a tough one but if the FA/EFL and other National Football Associations dont clamp down and stick to the same hymn page then they will lose this battle.
Dont tell me if players know they cant play for their national team that some/most wont sign for those so called "super league" Clubs, yes some will but imo the majority wont.
English / Spanish / Italian leagues will suffer for a few years but after the ESL project fizzles out these associations other teams will bounce back.
like honestly its expensive enough to follow english football around england so now add international flights/accommodation into the equation or add extra money on these pay-per view channels take up will be low and eventually the money men behind this ESL will call a halt to this whole league. Then where do the "super clubs" go???
Will leeds utd / blackburn / Coventry / Luton / qpr supporters pay to watch ManU versus Juve? i dont think so. Will kids start following the ManU / Real Madrid teams in the future? again if they cant see them what affinity can they have, if daddy isnt buying the game or traveling to Spain on a Wednesday to watch the game and 2 weeks later fly out to Milan to watch another midweek game. Taking the kid out of School?? never going to happen, so the kid wont be exposed to the hype of following those teams.
If they go let them go im telling ye now an ESL cant sustain that type of fan "cost" and without the fans if the pandemic has thought us anything the Club struggles to survive.
But if they go thats it never ever ever be allowed back into the domectic leagues.
I saw that the breakaway clubs have issue paperwork to European and uk courts to stop them being kicked out
Feel sorry for their true fans...NOT 😂
Wouldn't you kmow, Man Yoo are the ringleaders.
So if this does happen now and it starts next season,And the governing bodies follow through with their threats...... As things stand,we will qualify for the champions League by virtue of finishing in the top 4,and with Kane and Rashford banned from internationals Bamford will be called up for the Euros..... 👍👍
Juventus share price rose 7% from Friday.
Money will decide if this ESL goes ahead or not, looking at Ed woodward and other people resigning from their positions on UEFA committee's this may have now gone past the point of no return.
I think the English FA/EFL have only one shot to fire now,
Make a statement saying if any club leaves to join a a breakaway league they do so knowing that they will never be allowed compete in any english league ever again.
To the players if they play in any UN-recognised league they do so knowing they will never be selected to play for the national football team.
its Sh*t or bust now as the lines are drawn in the sand
Viva la Revolución!! ✊
Please sign and share.
It's turning into an evolving nightmare. Apparently the breakaway teams' leaders have resigned from their UEFA roles this morning. This is going all the way.
How much does tonight's game become front and centre as two great English clubs meet, with one looking to feather its own nest at the expense of the other.... we might be the most popular watch of the season tonight.
Even if its only being used by our "big six (my ar$e) clubs" as a means of getting more more more, its a disgusting and imoral and shows a lack of any respect for the game or the true fans and they should be ejected from the league for even considering it. If I was a supporter of any of the clubs involved this morning Id feel deeply disillusioned at the prospect and at how the club is treating them. If this were to go ahead it would simply be another nail in the coffin of the beautiful game as it morphs into nothing more than a video game watched from afar by other "fans" with no social connection to our country never mind the individual cities, no passion no true fans = no game worth watching.
I see that even scumchesters G Nevill is up in arms against his own club saying they should be docked points, shoved to the bottom of the division...Ha!
Greedy owners,clubs, players...killing the game.
Talk of a European Super League has been around for years and never got off the ground and the same will happen here.
could be a bargaining ploy to extract more cash and influence for the so called big clubs?
It'll never happen. They haven't even got the support of Bayern Munich or Paris St Germain, and had to resort to including Spurs to make up the numbers. This one is lost before they've even got started.
Relegate them all for bringing the game into disrepute. If this went ahead then clubs lower down the ladder no longer have an incentive to climb it. There will not be a romantic story of a Wimbledon or a Leicester, or indeed, a 1992 Leeds.
I would be ashamed if LUFC had been involved. Football exists because fans of even non league clubs can dream. It is part of all fans lives. When our teams wins we have great days when they lose we are quiet.
If I wanted Glory all of the time my favourite club would have gone from LUFC to Liverpool to Manure to Citeh
I am a monogamous football fan. One club FOR LIFE!
I'd take the rebel clubs who have signed the letter and issue a blanket 5 year ban from European competitions, with immediate effect.
They don't think the Champion's League lines their pockets enough so see how they get on without any of that revenue.
That would make these foreign owners sell up or resize their models around the domestic revenue.
They're also saying that any player who plays in it may not be available for international football....
The good news is that we'd have a chance to win the Premier every season from now on....! 🤣👍⚽👏