I do not believe he can be blamed if we get relegated but am not convinced he is the right man to take us forward. I never really understood his tactic of playing a narrow formation, especially Rapha, Harrison and James.
Seems harsh to judge him so early but there is a lot of rebuilding to be done this summer whatever division we are in, and the Championship is tough to get out of.
Marsch has some remarkable comments, now and then. Apparently, he thinks that if Rodrigo had just had him (Marsch) as his manager, 10 years ago, Rodrigo would have been one of the best forwards in the World. I really like Marsch, though, also because he’s so naive/enthusiastic and honest/transparent.
Will he last until Jan?
Julien Lopetegui
One of the best managers without a job. The 56-year-old left Sevilla this month, after 90 wins in 170 games. A Europa League winner, with Real Madrid and Spain on his CV. Back in 2020, The Sun said Leeds were considering Lopetegui.
Domenico Tedesco
Young at 37, Tedesco was sacked by Leipzig this season. He tidied up the mess left by Marsch at Leipzig last season – winning 20 of his 40 games. He has also managed Schalke and Spartak Moscow. Could he tidy Marsch’s mess again?
Peter Bosz
Bosz, 58, is still waiting for his next venture after a tricky spell at Lyon. TalkSPORT say Wolves interviewed the Dutch gaffer and were impressed. An attacking manager, Bosz also has taken charge at Dortmund, Leverkusen and Ajax.
Marcelino
One of Bielsa’s predecessors at Bilbao, 57-year-old Marcelino is incredibly experienced – but is yet to step foot out of Spain. With 823 games and 11 different jobs in his home country, could he finally try his luck at a non-Spanish side?
Andre Villas-Boas
A left-field one, but a manager that boasts many traits Leeds might look for. Attacking, charismatic and with Premier League experience. The ex-Chelsea and Spurs boss, 45, starred at Marseille – one of Bielsa’s old sides, in his last role.
Looking at the results and I have to say the same issues are actually occurring as just before Beilsa left.
1) Stupid individual error by a player and we are scored on 10 seconds later.
2) Striker missing gilt edge one on one chances (Bamford has 5 in 3 games)
3) Midfield missing in action.
4) NO actual leadership on the park - fu8k off if you think Cooper is a leader.
Liverpool game could be his last
I think Jesse should start wearing a t-suit or training kit on the sidelines....
He's dressed smart casual in jeans and a nice black sweatshirt but looks like he's rushing to get a taxi on the final whistle to beat the rush to the bar at a pub in the city....
.
Has until just before/after the WC to prove himself now.
Some great buys this summer but no win in 5 and just 3 points off the drop zone with Arsenal next!
VO must be sounding out potential replacements. Tuchel?
Totally agree BB about Charlie...
When Charlie Taylor returns to us from Bumley I think all the youngsters will look up to him....
Agreed Smurf.
Cooper is a great leader. He gets LUFC and instills the DNA into all players as does Bill and Dallas. They probably are just as important off the pitch as on it.
Who will be our leaders in the future? Patrick, Kalvin? I'd put my money on Charlie though.
I'm told Cooper has won more aerial duels than any other Leeds player in history. I could well believe that, great player, great leader, we won't find anyone better.
Never a good sign when our captain is in yards of space with the ball under control on his first touch but his 2nd touch is a sliding tackle.... 🙈😂🙈😂
Who would be a manager eh???
Now is the time to see what JM and his backroom staff will bring to the table. We all saw / read about the enormous amount work MB done on our squad / training facilities / etc before he signed i would doubt JM has been as diligent.
Players are going away to recharge the batteries and heavens knows some of our lads were on their last legs tbf, but Jesse's work only starts now in my eyes. Yes he came in and effectively he was "managing" / fire fighting on a daily / weekly basis but now he has to put in place the building blocks for his team / players he wants and map out whats expected of them and their roles within that style. Plus having some of those difficult conversations with some squad members that their time is up at ER.
Like you guy i think Shacks is a fine player and he can be used as a stop gap in a few positions but thats where i think the problem lies, He isnt / hasnt nailed down on one particular position and made himself the best player at leeds for that position, therefore stop gap player rather than right side of midfield and his name goes on the team sheet like Kalvin.
Disagree that Coops days are over and that he is way behind the pecking order of the other defenders we have.
Facts and stats back it up that when Cooper played last season he was our best performing defending when on the park have a look at some of these PL stats
Pascal
Played 29
Blocks 23
Aerial Duals won 40
Clearances 56
Headed Clearances 23
LLorente
Played 28
Blocks 17
Aerial Duals won 50
Clearances 75
Headed Clearances 37
Cooper
Played 21
Blocks 18
Aerial Duals won 82
Clearances 72
Headed Clearances 35
Koch
Played 20
Blocks 10
Aerial Duals won 45
Clearances 43
Headed Clearances 15
Id still name Cooper as our number one defender..
SImple really → Coops when fit plays. His competition for the LCB are Struijk then Hjelde.
LLorente generally has the RCB, Koch lately has hardly been played at RCB.
Don't get me wrong, I would also like to see more of Cresswell.
When Bamford gets fit it remains to be seen if he recapture his previous (goalscoring) form. Sounds that at least we're looking at signing a new n° 9.
Good because to just rely on Joffy would be silly.
Klich (in his best position) would still be a useful back-up/squad player.
Drameh, with Ayling out injured for a fair time will no doubt get a chance at the RB position. That's if he wants to return and fight for a starting position.
Don't know what is gonna happen to Shack (like him), he's a good lad and can play in several positions. But he's hardly got a look in this season, so he may well believe it's time to move on.
McCalmont will, no doubt, be trying to secure a starting position in another obscure league 2 side. Bogusz, if he recovers well from his ACL-injury, could perhaps be offered a chance. But rumours, (before he got injured) were that he was looking to prolong his stay in Spain → he wanted first team football.
Doesn't Bate appear to be closer to a starting spot?
Also firmly believe Ayling & Forshaw, if they get back to full fitness, will remain at LUFC. Hopefully they'll face some competition for their spot in the team/squad.
The questions you ask certainly need to be answered, but other even more urgent matters need to be dealt with.
First & foremost bringing in enough quality,→ a left back, the midfield area, a striker + maybe even look at the goalkeeping position.
Who replaces Raphina? What happens with FIrpo, Rodrigo ?
Then there is the Philps situation, hopefully he'll stay.
We also need to find (new?) clubs for Poveda, Casilla, Costa, ...
Some of the U23's youngsters will have to go out on loan.
Season start on August 6, very quick turnaround to get all this done.
So when is going to be ruthless and start culling the squad.
Has he had the chat with Cooper to let him know that Koch, Struijk, Cresswell and Hjedle are all in front of him now?
Has he pointed out to Bamford that unless he 100% fit fir the start of preseason then he is welcome to fit a new home?
Has he taken Klich aside and told him he now a squad back up player?
Has he talked to Dremah, Shackleton, McCalmont, Boguez and explained what he is going to do with them?
Has he said to Ayling and Forshaw that they are free to get a new home?
These are question that need answering before they go on holidays.
I like him. The way he talks and seems to manage the players is inspiring. He will get some of his players in and settle on a style of play this summer.
I hope his foot is alright after launching that drinks bucket when Coops nearly gave them a goal.
True Danish
The scrutiny of JM begins now.
Will he be as open and willing to talk to the media as he has done upto now?
Will he force open the purse strings of the owners and look for real "improvement" in our dealings in the transfer window?
How will he use the Summer / pre-season preparations?
What kind of squad will be going down under in July?
Yes give the man credit for keeping us in the PL but so too must the players get some of this credit.
The real questions / legacy of JM suitability and whether he is a successful LUFC boss have yet to be asked and answered.
I think JM deserves a lot of credit. It has not been an easy task, but he completed the mission. He made one mistake, early on, by allowing himself to touch upon Bielsa’s over-training the players. But he did not deserve to have to hear (some of) our hard-core fans chanting “Marcelo Bielsa” during the Brighton game and before the Brentford game. To be fair, JM is probably not a genius nor a magician, but he’s couragous, showing integrity, and to me he actually gets Leeds. So far, so good - will be more than interesting to see his own player choices and game strategy/strategies. MOT
Listened to JM in a post match interview he said the team was Leeds United and thats what he wants to take forward. Not a Kalvin team, not a rapha team but a leeds united team. He also said that he would be making changes during the summer TF window so the proof will be in the pudding and the Boards Bluff of "backing" the manager will be put to the test.
JM needs backing and then he has to prove he actually has a game plan instead of hoof it up the field.
Plenty of times today our defenders got the ball and chose to head or kick it upfield with no other thought. In the past they would have brought it down and played to another player.
IMO injuries cost MB. No Cooper, KP or PB for the bulk of the season added to many others. Was it MB's fault he over trained? Yes but in the first 3 years it worked, this year the guys simply broke down.
Yes. Well done - I honestly believe we’d have been down if we continued the Bielsa way - but we will never know; just my gut feeling.
Thank u Bielsa for what u did for our club - u showed that it is possible to polish a turd. I believed it’d be a draw today & a draw for Burnley & we’d b doomed. Lets start afresh now & not let us see ourselves in this position again
mot
IN JESSE MARSCH WE TRUST!!!!!
On a side note. If the board wants to change managers at season end Marco Rose has just parted ways with Dortmund in Germany. Good young manager who coached Red Bull Salzburg before JM and had a better recorded before moving onto Gladbach in Germany where he got them into Europe and had them playi attacking football. Dortmund bought him in and he has been sack from them for only winning 27 of his 46 games in charge.
Don't get me wrong, I am 100% fully behind Marsch and haven't a bad word to say about him. I want us to win this weekend, to stay up and for JM to become a Leeds legend. But I disagree with the assertion that we were going down with MB at the helm. That's something nobody can prove. And my opinion is based not on sentiment but the fact he was a winner.
We've no idea whether Leeds would have been relegated or not, but we weren't in the bottom three when he got the sack and Biesla has never managed a team that got relegated. So I would back the man who got us success. But this is Leeds, We sacked Howard Wilkinson. We sacked the only other two managers who got us promoted in recent times - Grayson and Biesla. We sacked David OLeary after reaching the Champions League Semi Final. We sacked Gary McAlister after getting to the play offs the previous year. We are pretty shoddy when it comes to sacking not backing managers
I think most believe we would get relegated with Bielsa, for me the simple question remains: is Marsch the man to take us forward?
I know it is early days but for me the jury is very much out on someone who seems a decent guy, but with a very limited track record and who I am not convinced by (I seriously hope he proves me wrong next season).
Worth pointing out:
Bielsa Played 26 Points 23 GD -31
Marsch Played 11 Points 12 GD -7
Marsch's record would keep us up over a 38 game season - on track for 41 points. He's had no preseason, it's not his squad and he wasn't anticipating the role coming when it did.
We sit in the bottom 3 on goal difference.... where did that come from? (see stats above).
Our plight is as much down to Burnley and Everton getting better over the last month - they are both above mid table in the recent form guide.
I know we all look for confirmation bias, but the idea Bielsa would have kept us up and Marsh is a poor choice doesn't stack up with the reality. Marsch is on a hiding to nothing at the moment - if we survive it was luck or Bielsa's team, if we go down he took us down and Bielsa would have kept us up.....
He is Orta's pick.
Was a bit surprised that the board went for JM, but more than anything,
I couldn't understand us offering him a 3,5 years deal.
Such a lengthy deal for someone with no experience or succes in the Premiership at all.
The sensible thing would have been to offer him a deal until the end of the season, → keep us up & we'll offer you a 1 or 2 year extension.
Anyway, there's a fairly decent chance we'll be paying up his contract a lot sooner.
In the, now likier event of relegation would he be the man to lead us out of the Championship?
Doing abit of rewatching of JM interviews from taking over and the one thing he stated very clearly was that was only going to do minor altercation to the side to tighten up the defence and take us away from man marking, more multi player zonal pressure . I not sure he has achieved that SIMPLE thing. He at times changed everything but nothing...
MB has never been the manager of a relegated team. Never. Would I have more confidence in an MB team getting results in the run in? Damn right.
Bielsa took a mid table Championship side and worked miracles. In his fourth season he couldn’t do it again.
The players had hit their collective heads on a thick glass ceiling. Trained hard for 3 years, the squad couldn’t cope any longer without reinforcements.
In steps the new guy. First game is encouraging despite the result.
Just a few tweaks and we were looking more solid and attacking well.
But there is a but.
He kept tweaking and changing. The players have struggled to adapt.
The Leicester game for me was a bit of a false dawn. We haven’t played as well since.
Two managers have failed to get the team playing anything like before. MB had run them into the floor, and for me Marsch hasn’t got a system in place to suit our battered squad.
We we’re going down with MB.
IMO, Marsch hasn’t got the players or the ability to keep us up. We just seem reliant on others bogging it up.
It's not rocket science to be able to change formations DURING a game.... we should have sorted out a better pattern of play so far especially as we've had 2 international breaks.
I'll give Jesse the benefit of the doubt until he has HIS team at the start of next season....
Myself and Hoddle would have been able to beat Norwich and fkn Watford....
In my boy's youth football we just used to shout to the holding midfielder to drop to a 3 at the back and the full backs pushed on 20yds to play as wing backs automatically .... we only had an hour to sort this at training on a Thursday night.
The fact that we finished bottom of the league for the last 6 years and the boy's have lost interest in football has nothing to do with it.... they actually enjoy sniffing glue at the back of the shops.
I'm of the belief that JM's current tactics and formations are dictated by the situation we are in and what's available. Pretty sure that there will be a sea change in our approach once all this is over, irrespective of what division we are in.
Echo comments made by Richard - spot on.
Jesse Marsch plays a narrower system up top because he relies on fullbacks to give his teams width, whether you describe his formation as 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-2-2.
It is not lost on me that the issues recently have been at fullback (Dallas and Ayling) and he's using Rapha and Harrison in part to mitigate this.
JM's tactics can be very effective with attacking fullbacks (wingbacks) but the narrowness only works up top with a proper playmaking 10 - and look at what we have there?? Roberts or Rodrigo.
He's given Greenwood a crack in patches but he's very young for that responsibility.
In truth it would have been better had JM had January to get reinforcements in - and possibly stop Drameh's exit. In the mean time he's actually slightly better in goal difference and points to MB, despite being new and not having his own players.
Having time to implement his systems? He's been honest - he's trying to do so slowly so he doesn't overwhelm the players - remember they are tired and totally indoctrinated in man marking - changing that alone is a massive undertaking - no wonder we struggle to look coherent. I still have faith in him if he gets supported in the Summer in the right areas.
The Marsh as our manager going forward is a strange one. He clearly can coach but his current performance has left alot of questions. I personally have not been happy with his team set ups thus far and understand that he does not have his style of players but if a team has 3 wing players and they are where all our goals are coming from then you change your play to match their strength.
Looking at things as they stand. How many new managers can take over a team and have 2 periods of 10 plus days with out a game and still not implement any of their systems.
Marsch has a very poor record so far although he inherited a team that can't defend, had Kalvin out, had no striker and had to deal with injuries and suspension....
Out of 11 games he's only won 3 and 2 of them were relegation fodder Norwich and Watford and the other was Wolves, who looked set to beat us until they had a player sent off!!
We've somehow got to get this squad to perform above themselves on Sunday and get 'superstars' like Rapha to do the business on the pitch with the ball rather than the fake passion of abusing the officials and running after the ball when it's out of play to get the opposition to take the throw a bit quicker.... if he showed more football ability on the pitch like he did earlier in the season then we'd have been out of trouble by now.
Richard - very accurate assessment
Spot on Richard
I agree completely with what you say BB, except the first 8-10 games of next season will likely be extra important if we are relegated, so would like to see a clear understandable vision from JM that the players get too.
I listen to the square ball pod casts and have enjoyed them for a good few years, but since Bielsa went they have taken a turn for the worse. This last one was really toxic and in my opinion very anti Marsch, although they try to dress it up as not being.
They were moaning that JM hasn’t tightened us up at the back. At that point he had been in charge for 10 games and conceded 16 goals. No mention of February when we shipped 20 goals in 5 games. Also looking at points per game JM has managed slightly more than Bielsa.
I loved Bielsa and loved what he did with our club for 3 years , it was truly amazing. Having said that we are where we are now because of him. We got promoted because of Bielsa, we played amazing football because of Bielsa, we finished 9th in the Orem because of Bielsa. But it’s sad to say that we are also in a relegation dog fight because of Bielsa.
personally I don’t think Bielsa would have kept us up. The players looked broken by the time he left, they had No confidence and didn’t look like they trusted the system anymore.
This season is a clean slate for JM
It does not really matter if we stay up or go down. It is the first 8/10 games of next season that will define him.
I know he does not have the players that suit his desired system. Teams worked our man marking out and it cost us with heavy defeats.
I doubt MB would have kept us up and, in fact, I think we would be relegated now if we did not make that change. IMO it should have been done in December and we should have splashed the cash in Jan as Newcastle did.
I am still trying to fathom out what JM is trying to achieve other than be tight at the back and hope to score from a set piece.
So I think I will just pray to my God for help.
I'm pretty sure MB would have kept us up. His teams always always treated the next game as a new challenge, and invariably picked themselves up. I never like seeing managers sacked in mid season, and that opinion is reinforced when you consider that five of the eight teams that changed managers currently comprise the bottom five. And of the other three, Man Utd are about to change manager again.
It's also been difficult on the players having to change tactics. It's quite clear they feel more comfortable when man marking than zonal. And as Bull says, the wide men have struggled when asked to go narrow.
I think it was the right call to pick a manager with a reputation for working with youth and for improving players. And that's exactly what we have got. I don't expect to see major changes in Orta's transfer policy, the emphasis will still be on acquisitions that can increase in value, eg Aaranson. There won't be any over 30s. It'll be interesting to see how JM handles pre season, will he retain the punishing schedule Biesla introduced?
I think Marsch has done OK with his points tally considering some of the teams we played.
One thing that has gone against us is the unexpected form of Burnley.
I think Marsch is a decent guy, but would prefer to see him play more to our strength, which for me is out wide. I do not think Bielsa would have kept us up. I wonder at the kind of analysis the board does when appointing a successor to Bielsa, for me Marsch is a bit of a gamble and a change made too late.
I do think a large part of our injury problems were down to over worked players coupled with a small squad.
I agree that it's harsh to judge JM just yet, he's trying to cobble together a side on the pitch to play and is not being helped by some idiotic tackles that are decimating an already small squad.
If we assume the worst, then we should get around £80million as a parachute payment (last year was £83miilion). Unfortunately we would probably sell Rapha and Kalvin for about £30million each, so without any intervention by the board, we have around £140million to spend. Maybe the board would chip in £60million which would bring us up to a war chest of £200million. You would have thought that would be enough to rebuild the team?
agree that this aint JM's team but i think most LUFC fans would argue had Marcelo stayed he would have gotten us safe as KP & Coops were almost off the treatment table.
That said JM sets the players up so our "narrow" formation is his call, I think playing DJ up top and giving rapha licence to roam automatically makes us "narrow", so that's something JM can / should fix.
There is not doubt tho that we have somehow "defended" better since MB's days, not that last Sunday was good example of that, jezz we were all over the shop especially in the first half and probably should have been 3 down, thankfully Brighton's shooting boots were left on the team bus.
I havent seen enough of what JM can bring to table as between injuries and suspensions he has fire-fighting in team selection so its probably a bit unfair to lambaste the guy that's not even here 4 months.
For me the jury is out on Jesse and i didn't think it was right of the section of the fans that were chanting sack the board last week, the Manager / team dont need to hear that when they are on the pitch struggling to score.
We need to stick together now more so than ever because "if" we go down we will lose a good 6-8 of our team, and a bounce back up as history has showed LUFC wont happen that easily.
Best thing in a storm sometimes is to sit tight, ride it out and wait for the clouds to disappear and then fix the problems,
Summer 2022 is when we need to repair the damage to our squad which it has been suffering for the past 12-18 months.